Lexi_poo

Jul 4, 2024 06:53

I'm more conservative, your "friend" is just unstable and woke.

DSBM99

Jul 4, 2024 11:00

I guess she never looked into the goth movement. Romantic punks who could careless for the political music scene and rather just use the post punk and new wave sound for their melodramatic romance.

Throne of Bear

Jul 4, 2024 11:02

I find a range of people in the alt world. Theres actually allot of Alt people in the extreme wings of both left and right.

We like angry music, its not really a surprise we get angry about the political sphere too and have some dark or extreme views on it.

Ranger Pariah

Jul 4, 2024 11:39

Isn't the key word of "alt" indicative of alternative? Ergo, being "alternative" to whatever is going on with the mainstream at whatever given time? The very idea that she stated she is "a gatekeeper" is anti-alternative by it's nature. What a fvckin nunce. In the spirit of how neo-liberalism (wokism) has been, I think that currently, conservatism is the new punk (for a few years). Then maybe 10-15 years it'll go the other way. Then the pendulum shall swing to the other side again.
*le Sigh*
Will we ever learn? Doe'st thou here the wailings of angels?

Darkhorse1215

Jul 4, 2024 11:50

Your "friend" is an authoritarian asshole who is delusional about her authoritarianism.

I used to love the whole liberal thing, because my opinion of it was based on an image from the '60s and '70s. Aquarian idealist liberals who didn't trust big government and big corporations.

The far right, nowadays, wants to believe that "roles have reversed", and now they are more libertarian. Not really. The far left and far right are both authoritarian scumbag s**t.

It's time for a new counterculture. One that doesn't buy into left/right propaganda. The idea of alt/counterculture used to be about human rights and freedom. It wasn't tied to the mainstream political paradigm, and especially can't be now if it wants to be an effective force for human rights and decency. You "friend" is an authoritarian asswipe and a disservice to the counterculture.

I kind of consider myself a moderate, but at the same time, I kind of consider myself off on a tangent not really related to the current system/paradigm.

Darkhorse1215

Jul 4, 2024 12:03

Your friend is a far left "vamp". Notice how he attempts to gatekeep the counterculture as something that should be alt-right?

Hey, if your friend is single, send her Vamp's way. They'd make a great situationship who can hate f**k while they feed on symbiotic polarity fission and plot the downfall of human decency.

Ranger Pariah

Jul 4, 2024 12:07

If we were two or three decades ago, what was left now, would be right now. f**king funny s**t.

Darkhorse1215

Jul 4, 2024 12:14

Pretty much, in some core ways. Not completely, though.

Darkhorse1215

Jul 4, 2024 12:15

It's basically the product of social engineering.

DSBM99

Jul 4, 2024 14:43

I honestly hate the term alternative, it's too broad. Like for instance would you consider hair metal from the 70-80s to be alt now a days or conservative music.

Example 1 I can say that the clash is conservative music since they're a punk band singing about fighting the law, but the law won. However with hair metal we send in Dee Snider from twisted sister to fight congress about "explicit" lyrics and slap stick humor music videos and he kicked congress's ass, which is why we now have the warning explicit lyrics labels on stuff.

I find it funny though that a punk band, the clash, sings about fighting the law and having the law won, but in reality it was mom/hair metal that fought congress and mom/hair metal won.

https://youtu.be/S0Vyr1TylTE?si=vot6_2dKow3XeGya

But yeah, broadly I hate the term alternative/alt cause before this modern stuff, jazz was alt, blues was alt, Elvis and the whole blues rock greaser scene was alt, The rolling stones CCR all that 60s stuff was alt, metal scene then punk then speed metal and so on and so fourth is all alt.

Your friend is very closed minded when it came to alt stuff. I too am a gatekeeper in a way when I see people wear band shirts and they don't even know the band or some songs, but I ain't gonna confront them about it unless I know them. A fun thing to do is have a picture of joy division, skinny puppy, Bauhaus, and specimen and ask your friend which one is post punk, rivet head, goth, and death rock based on how they are dressed.

DSBM99

Jul 4, 2024 15:08

Show your friend this. Trying to find part 1 and 2 but basically it's either in this one or a previous one that these kids talk about the far left in the scene, most likely your friend, and the far right in the scene and how they start fights at venues. The KIDS in the interview could careless for the politics on both sides and leave when they see one group come in. Forgot what the names of the left and right group was. I watched this my junior year in highschool during study hall.

This is about the gutter punk scene

https://youtu.be/5_hyDV7XRmw?si=eDbNFjg42lFVRywU

And if we're going to get stereotypical like your friend in the scene, then your friend is a pan handling alcohol who blows what little they have on drugs and alcohol and mooches off friends who are disabled

HeartbreakBeat

Jul 4, 2024 15:14

I am liberal and would go so far as to say a liberal. I generally don't lean conservative unless it concerns professionalism in the work place.

We must realize the "punk" scene has been historically fascist, look at older bands from the 70s and 80s. I would by no means call them conservative, though.

DSBM99

Jul 4, 2024 15:32

@heartbreakbeat, if you're talking about the shirt Sid vicious wears, it's to represent what they thought of the previous generation that they are fascist.

Also speaking before punks there were skinheads in London. In the 1950-60s they were reggae ska loving middle/working class people who liked Jamaican stuff, it wasn't till later in the 70s-80s that there was a divide of neo Nazi skin heads and SHARP (skin heads against racial prejudice)

@Neon, if your friend did not know this about skin heads please call her a poser. Don't know why this post gets me angry, but I hate when people don't go deep into the rabbit whole of alt and see other alt cultures before speaking. Like for instance does your friend know what KKK stands for in the "alt" community

Have her watch "This is England" it explains how skin heads are the way they are today.

Neon Bright Star ⭐

Jul 4, 2024 22:47

Hey all, totally agree with points made. Wanted to add she's a femcel (perpetually single and angry at men type) and yes a woke far leftist.

I truly feel to be alt (in a true sense) in this day and age is to be conservative as liberal values are more the mainstream anymore, ironically. But ask idiots on the fringe left and they still think it's somehow conservative.

Flyxglitter

Jul 4, 2024 23:08

My two favorite pastors are Alt. Pastor Kelly ( from Kelly K ministry) is tatted up heavily and he has piercings. He recently baptized a sweet elderly woman in a motels pool he was staying in.

You can believe in whatever you want and dress however you want while believing whatever you want. Those who don't agree are being a silly goose. Lol

Lexi_poo

Jul 5, 2024 01:29

Also a lot of people seem to forget that "alt" was a short term for "alternative rock" so it is first and foremost meant to be a classification for a music genre, music genres are usually closely followed by a style/dress sense. The only political links to "alt" really should be an anti establishment "f**k the system" kind of thing. The left is all about empowering "the system" so that's another way this "friend" doesn't know what they are talking about BUT back to the start of this message, it should and is based on taste of music and the type of people that try to force politics into every discussion are the type of intolerant people I want nothing to do with.

Oh and what's also funny is that "alt music" isn't even alternative anymore, it's actually pretty damn mainstream in a lot of ways so now more than ever "alt" literally is just a genre of music.

Darkhorse1215

Jul 5, 2024 02:12

In such culture wars and political polarization, it's only the "system" that wins. Dogs fighting for table scraps.

Lexi_poo

Jul 5, 2024 02:24

I agree Dark. The funny thing is, because of social media, younger and younger people are getting into politics and falling for the same traps people 30 years ago was falling in and in that same token, the same old phrases that people think don't mean anything DO have meaning, such as "divide and conquer" The system wants people to fight against each other so the target is off of them. Instead of realising that, people get stuck trying to argue with each other about which "system" they want controlling them.

Darkhorse1215

Jul 5, 2024 03:08

Exactly.

Grumman

Jul 5, 2024 16:49

Your friend probably believes all black people should be activists who support BLM too. No group of people is a monolith though. Gatekeeping is for simple minded dopes who don’t engage with reality.

Flyxglitter

Jul 5, 2024 16:56

Are you jealous Grumman? Cus ya know metal and rock are black and they are taking their culture back. Lol 😂

Grumman

Jul 5, 2024 17:01

Lol, yeah I keep seeing shït like that on Facebook, which is an endless font of pseudohistory and nonsense.

Flyxglitter

Jul 5, 2024 17:02

https://youtu.be/oeE8XB_bur0?si=4TO8Y4RC8QeBfvve

That song is silly in my opinion.... Lol

Neon Bright Star ⭐

Jul 5, 2024 17:08

@Gru she's very vocal about how men are trash as well. It's all or nothing for her

Grumman

Jul 5, 2024 17:13

Sad and isolating, to be that narrow minded.

Neon Bright Star ⭐

Jul 5, 2024 17:33

Well she also is aghast at the supreme Court ruling on fining/jailing people for camping in public areas. Complains about how it's dehumanizing homeless folks. However in Seattle (where she currently lives and I used to live) the homeless set up camps often in public parks where families and kids go. This is an issue because, drumroll, most our homeless are homeless due to drug use, specifically heroine. Which means, where they set up camp one can expect to find used needles. And you do. I took Walt to a park way back and we saw several needles lying around, mind you, this is a park that had play structures for kids, not just a wilderness area. I think the public has a right to retake public spaces meant for *all* and clear our those who are trashing it and making it unsafe for everyone else.

Grumman

Jul 5, 2024 19:51

It seems like a genuinely difficult issue that we’re also dealing with here in Denver. I know it will sound heartless, but I’m very tired of the fücking homeless population here. I vote for every local ballot measure for low cost housing and other programs for the poor and disadvantaged. Now it’s up to someone else to put that money to work and get these people out of my life and back living better lives. Had some fücking tweaker asshole at the intersection yesterday start yelling and banging the street sign right next to me and my 7 months pregnant wife. I have to say, I never wished I had a handgun in my glove box more than I did in that moment because if he had started banging on my car, I would not have hesitated to take it out. Add to the usual homeless drug addict population the increasing number of migrants who aggressively panhandle by washing your windows in groups of half a dozen or so and it’s easy to see why people want out of the cities.

Vorschlag

Jul 6, 2024 09:51

The counter culture has always had a heavy left leaning, remember that goth is the younger sister of punk and that the punk movement had a lot of bands and promotion of anarcho, disestablishmentarian etc views etc with some internal tendencies to glorify communist or socialist views within its sub culture.

Goth on the other hand has always had less (not none) of a political focus but none the less as a sub culture from within the counter culture tended to lean left and push against the status quo and the mainstream.
That being said as politics have continued to push further left and third wayism failed or calapsed, what was left is now centrist and what was centrist is now right, what was centre right is now right wing apparently. . .

So as the mainstream has pushed further left than some people in many of the subcultures which make up the counter culture, there are those who are reexaming their beliefs and political opinions or who simply shift to remain at odds with the mainstream or status quo.
For some this is a conscious decision where as for others it is simply habit to distrust popular opinion and anything that smells too much like propaganda.

As for your friend....

I have no problem with elitism or gate keeping as long as the aim is solely to ensure that the divides between different sub cultures and the mainstrean is clear cut and that labels are used correctly, to promote "betterment" and a desire to improve our sub cultures without losing their individual characters or anesthetics.

Language exists and words have meaning, mislabelling something as goth, punk etc etc etc only invalidates the use of the term and allows things to be falsely associated with groups of people, genres, sub cultures etc.
This is also one of the reasons why we splinter our music into sub genres within the genres etc.... but that's a rant for another time...

The irony being that your friend has done just that, by falsely associating a political agenda with a sub culture they have no right to speak on behalf of, so in my puritanical view of what goth is.... to the gallows with them.

Vorschlag

Jul 6, 2024 09:54

Or the tldr version: your "friend" is a waste of time and if I was in your shoes I'd disassociate from them.

insidious

Jul 6, 2024 11:18

I find most alt people political are the same as the general population, perhaps once apon a time punks were more anarchist, but I dont think thats the case since maybe the 80s. Goths inception were anti violent/pacifists & very much about being gender fluid in a lot of ways. The hippee culture I guess that was a music & counter culture which was left reformist at the time in the 60s,
But alternative music scenes, seem to be like the general population these days, anything & everything, politically.

insidious

Jul 6, 2024 11:37

Neon, are you trying to understand her?

What's the point of this post?

Anthony55

Jul 6, 2024 13:16

Neon their are definitely some fake profiles here